OC [OC] Same thing? (i.redd.it)
6527 points · submitted by EmployeePractical514 to r/comics
6527
all 1430 comments
Lou_Papas 249 points (4 children)
We need more men designed for the female gaze.
BurningPenguin 206 points (2 children)
I heard there is a way:
HelBelle666 137 points (2 children)
We need more women designed for the female gays
No-Heat-6149 37 points (1 child)
We need more Man designed for male gays
VoidGhidorah900 14 points
I disagree. I want more men designed for the male gaze, specifically my gaze
ManyPen6614 310 points (4 children)
ManyPen6614 122 points (3 children)
vitalvisionary 34 points (2 children)
Need a Qorvex and Volt to really represent the "female gaze"
ManyPen6614 29 points
ManyPen6614 52 points * (edited 6h ago)
here comes the walking nuclear reactor. With his large cod piece.
Immediate-Song6861 15 points (1 child)
MY GOAT
ManyPen6614 11 points
Ah yes styanax my favourite warframe spartan.
_Dzen_ 10 points
Im betting that de won't let liger design a male heirloom skin because it would be too powerful
mace30 332 points (5 children)
All I get from this is we lack interesting and varied ways to sexualize men.
jbyrdab 29 points
Araki
Van_Weezer 153 points (4 children)
It's an ongoing problem. No one agrees on what makes men attractive, even when hyper sexualized. Some people will point to Hugh Jackman on the cover of Good housekeeping as an example of a mans thirst trap. But that doesn't exactly feel equal to the kind of thirst traps we see with women.
Big_Excitement_3551 100 points (6 children)
You honestly can’t really sexualise a man in the same way you can a woman in our current society
Benjiimon 62 points
I still appreciate the effort people put in to try and make men keep up.
Gamer_G33k17 33 points (2 children)
Best way is to put a man in a thong that overly exagerates the bulge, make sure he has a big round butt, and make him buff.
I also like how Monster Hunter Wilds handled it. Basically, if they add bikini armor, both sexes can wear it AS bikini armor.
cutezombiedoll 6 points (1 child)
Even that doesn’t quite hit the same mark if you look at what most people attracted to men tend to like.
Lopsided-Farmer-9422 36 points
From the perspective of predominantly male fanbases these tend to be catered too, male sexualisation is aspirational while female sexualisation is objectifying
Rich_Music1640 16 points
i feel like there are some methods but they revolve around nsfw methods or hair/vibe rather than actual parts
Bombadilo_drives 12 points (1 child)
You absolutely can, and it's done regularly, it's just done in a completely different way. It's certainly not the obvious physical way of exaggerated features and skimpy outfits.
For example, my wife is watching a show called "The Sex Lives of College Girls", and one of the characters is the male coach of a women's soccer team. The women regularly yell things to him like "take your shirt off!" and reply "yes daddy!" when he asks them to do stuff, and it's played up for laughs.
Or recall that video of the fire alarm going off at the romance book convention. 4 male fire fighters entered the building to the catcalls of like 800 women and none of the video commenters batted an eye.
Of course, there are significant historical power differences to consider in this, and most of those men have never been made to feel physically unsafe by women in their lives.
I say all this out of concern as an uncle of young nephews. I don't spend a lot of time on the short form content socials, but there seems to be this pervasive theme that it's 100% okay to post aggressively thirsty comments about men, and to publicly judge men on their appearance.
It feels like popular culture learned nothing from the decades of girls and women struggling with body image issues and decided it's just fine to publicly comment on men's appearance
skivvv 20 points * (edited 6h ago) (1 child)
It reminds me of the saying, "No one knows who discovered water, but we know it wasn't the fish." As in an environment that's familiar to you becomes invisible. Women being sexualised is so common it doesn't register that it's a trend a lot of the time. People point to men being sexualised in defence because it's so abnormal that even one is worth commenting on.
Personally my take in sexualisation is that it's a mix of the design of the character and the observer. I'm not sexually attracted to myself when I look in the mirror, but someone might be sexually attracted to my body because they like skinny white guys. So is it attractive or not? In being observed do I become hot? If an ass claps in the wood does it make a sound? I think this also goes for personality since being into a certain personality can make a character way hotter than if it's not the type of person you find attractive (which doesn't necessarily rely on sexualised design). But like I suspect it's evolution making you want to procreate with someone with specific physical traits and those traits have been identified and exaggerated in various ways through media. It's fine to have that reaction but separating yourself enough from it enough to be respectful in the day-today is the key.
Generally I think the two parallel problems are "is this sexualised character sexual without being objectified?" and "What are the types of experiences that deserve to be represented?" The first one is about execution on a specific type of person and the second is, I suspect, what people actually mean when they say that they're pissed off by sexualised characters. It's not necessarily that it's objectification (although it might be), it's that it could be something else, but isn't. I think you need both to really get at the core of the issue since sexuality is as much a part of the network of human experience as everything else.
LAVADOG1500 12 points * (edited 7h ago)
“If an ass claps in the wood does it make a sound?”
dragondingohybrid 9 points (1 child)
Wait, the picture where he's wearing a sweater and holding a cake? People are calling that a thirst trap?!
Van_Weezer 7 points
The one in the blue long sleeve. But Yeah it's come up in this same kind of discussion a lot lately. A lot of ladies say that they find that more attractive than just shredded shirtless dudes.
Moravic39 55 points (2 children)
I have a theory about this. What men find sexually appealing is broadcasted far and wide and early. Even in reasonably family friendly media we have men lusting after women who have the same classic sexualized features. People think it's funny to pretend baby boys are attracted to big boobs and such.
There isn't really an equivalent for little girls. Women aren't trained to sexualize certain features from a young age.
I think that's why women roll out crazy ideas for that 'hear me out' era
Bright_Economics8077 7 points
Y'know, that is what I was thinking too. If male sexualisation got as much history as female, how similarly weird would the character designs get? My first thought was a "shirt" that is just long sleeves rolled up halfway, probably with a turtleneck that has an Adam's apple window.
CandyCreecher 461 points (2 children)
Sir, this is a Wendy’s and I’m 99% sure those women are succubi poorly trying to replicate human women but increasing your chances in taking your soul with no way of my words to dissuade you or anyone else. With that said, can you make up your order now?
Faustias 66 points (1 child)
One Baconator, double patty, pickles, and cheese. Chocolate Milkshake.
is the salad bar open? I'd rather not order if it isn't open.
Teacher_Crazy_ 21 points
Is the forsty machine working? My broken back bae wants one.
B-Z_B-S 1.1k points (8 children)
Relevant comic:
Dion-is-us 517 points (5 children)
Somehow as a society we always circle back and create Spartans.
AwayCable7769 186 points (2 children)
Random but one of my favourite historical fun facts is that the Romans loved the Spartans so much that aristocratic Roman families would send their children to Sparta to learn their ways purely for educational and recreational purposes, not for any practical reasons. Sparta and the Spartans at ine point in Roman history was essentially a living museum and tourist attraction.
Azmoten 104 points (2 children)
Spartans had slaves and beat their kids so it was probably not the greatest summer camp experience
Asleep_Tip496 141 points (2 children)
Your acting like romans did not have slaves or beat their kids
MaraiaLou 57 points
That's probably what they liked the most about Sparta
BreadNoCircuses 31 points (1 child)
I mean, my understanding is that you have to pay attention to your kids to beat them so maybe the Romans didn't actually do that.
Asleep_Tip496 26 points
Fair point to probibly had a slave to do that for them
sexual_lemonade 41 points
Hello Muddah, hello Faddah.
Here I am at Camp Granada Romana.
Camp is very entertaining.
And they say we'll have some fun if it stops raining they stop the beating
Dark-Specter 7 points
The simplest lifeform
Perryn 10 points
Something about coming on their shields. I don't know, I'm not a historian.
flatscancomics 160 points (1 child)
I have a gay friend who's like this and it's absolutely hilarious
magistrate101 22 points
It's funny and hot when they're role-playing as hypermasculine for sex (especially when they're the bottom 🤤). But it's just as tiring as wannabe alpha straight guys outside of sex.
CountVonRimjob 21 points (1 child)
You win sex against a man. What could be straighter than that?
bobkaare28 5 points (1 child)
The comedian Steve Hughes did a stand up about this.
meeowth 59 points (2 children)
I just know someone or more likely multiple someones have drawn them kissing by now 😺
Ciennas 39 points (2 children)
Which feels wrong because the red haired guy is clearly uncomfortable by the insane embodiment of toxic masculinity.
meeowth 41 points (1 child)
He is very committed to playing his part in the evening kinky role play
brief_thought 10 points
Committed? The whole thing was his idea. Blue shirt is an incredible service dom for setting up this RP for him.
DramaOnDisplay 7 points (1 child)
I think he’d try to start making the toxic guy salads in an attempt to find a salad he will eat and show him that’s it’s not all just lettuce and tomatoes. And then maybe toxic guy finds a salad he begrudgingly admits is pretty good. And then salad guy invites him to dinner where he will teach him how to make the salad. Toxic guy brings a pack of steaks and tells him that he’ll teach him how to make REAL food, and at first salad guy is a little hurt- all this work he put into broadening this meatheads culinary horizons and he’s still making jabs?? Toxic guy senses the tension in the kitchen and tries to explain- not that the salad isn’t real food too, it grows from the earth, nourishes the animals, and goes great with a sizzling, juicy steak! They complement each other!
Anyway one thing leads to another and he’s got Toxic guy on his knees, slorping down his man meat.
SlowFrkHansen 4 points
I mean, a juicy slab is a juicy slab, and just what a growing boy needs.
Azmoten 7 points (1 child)
No way! What website are those drawings posted on? So I can avoid them obviously haha
meeowth 6 points (1 child)
/r/GatekeepingYaoi has this kind of stuff (remixing comics and memes so that the guys are kissing), but ironically you're more likely to find it in /r/GatekeepingYuri since its way more active and allows all genders (and pictures of Yuri Gagarin)
Azmoten 4 points
Wow, I’ll make sure to stay away from those places hey Alexa go to arr gatekeeping yuri
discomute 12 points
I'm so straight I hate myself because I'm a man and liking men is gay
pretenzioeser_Elch 15 points (1 child)
This is absolutely a real sentiment. There are gay men who consider themselves extra manly because of it.
Vivians_Basement 4 points
I think he's flirting.
ShawnOdedead 69 points (2 children)
Then there's Marvel Rivals, true equality
Brief_Television_608 34 points (2 children)
He was so sexualized that straight men across the internet kicked up a stink until the devs nerfed his bulge.
Idealman1910 23 points (1 child)
from what I've heard the bulge nerf happened because in reality the bulge was being buffed by a bug which they then patched
Lonely-General1316 13 points (2 children)
The devs are just using thst as an excuse
Drow_Femboy • points
Nah, it was true. His bulge was hanging all loose and floppy because of a bug. They just tightened it up the way it was supposed to be initially, they didn't actually make it smaller.
Master_Fetus 161 points (1 child)
Don't forget that all of them are between the ages of 13-17
JapaneseStudentHaru 183 points (4 children)
I don’t think men really get what the issue is because they don’t have to live in female bodies.
I recently watched an anime I was really excited about only to get smacked in the face with this. There was a man on the team who was very muscular and his male teammates admired how big and strong he was. That’s where it ended, though. He was still a character. He was respected as a person. He was a person who happened to have the physique other male characters wanted.
The female teammates were not given the same level of consideration. They were all obsessed with the MC and given numerous blushy-faced interactions with him. That’s all you ever see of them. Hell, one of the female characters’ power involved her forcing other men to sexually assault her (hard to explain, but she doesn’t want them to touch her. She has like a magic aura that makes them do it).
The women are constantly sexualized, and used for goon bait. They’re constantly shown wearing nothing but bikinis, undressing, or in compromising positions. And the best they can do in terms of female character development is make one of them really good at fighting. I have a feeling a lot of men who watch it think that having goon bait that can fight is good character development.
That_one_sander 23 points (1 child)
Is it fire force?
TheVisualExplanation 26 points (2 children)
I'm not OP but yeah it's Fire Force
JapaneseStudentHaru 13 points (1 child)
Yep 😔
I was really excited for it because despite Soul Eater having some of the same issues, it was just a much better written show and the female characters were mostly written with real purpose.
Aside from the constant gooner bait, the show just wasn’t good enough for me to wanna watch it after that assault scene. You compare the first three episodes of Soul Eater to Fire Force and it’s night and day. Perhaps that’s why they felt the need to pad it out with cheap goon characters. So hard to find an anime these days that has a good story and doesn’t rely on gooner audiences to get by.
thebagelslinger 94 points (2 children)
Yeah a lot of people in this thread are just mind numbingly stupid. "But women think shirltess men are hot too??"
Kind of telling that men in this thread are so used to women being goon bait characters that they cannot comprehend the idea that being hot is not the same as sexualization.
Women can be attracted to buff shirtless men, but buff shirtless men usually still get proper characterization. They don't exist solely as a sex object in the media in question, they are an actual proper well-fleshed out character, not some himbo fan service character for women. I don't know why people have a hard time grasping this difference.
Suspicious_Ice_3160 25 points (1 child)
To add on a little something I noticed too; when they are (the male characters) portrayed as purely “goon bait” and not have proper characterization, it’s almost always because it’s a satire of female characters always being sexualized, and not actual sexualization on the same level as those female ones. A little difficult for me to put it into words, it just feels like it’s played for a joke with men, but with women it’s just… the artists comfort zone? I don’t think it’s necessarily on purpose, just easy to fall back to and easy to keep doing instead of trying and potentially failing to be compelling (or even respectful at times)?
DaniCarmine 34 points (2 children)
Beautifully put. Thank you.
This is why my first - and simplest - bar, for me to be interested in a man is: “Does he see me as a person?”
Not a walking vagina. a Person.
60% of men that I encounter on a night out fail this test, in one way or another.
When I tell men about my experiences, they get angry. When I tell other women, they nod and understand…
ironballs16 11 points
And sadly, that 60% are also the most likely to approach, as the other guys will be concerned with whether an approach would be intrusive on your night out.
kyew 14 points
Welcome to the Hawkeye Initiative.
Nicotino-Cigaretti 29 points (1 child)
The sarcastically sexualized examples are hilarious, well done
VinnyBoy45 153 points (12 children)
I wouldn't know how to overly sexualize a male character.
On the other hand, I know how to sexualize a female character.
On the third hand, I do not know how to draw so it does not matter.
TsundereKisser 105 points (8 children)
Coming from a woman, I find Nightwing to be a great example of how to sexualize a man without it being gross/silly. That shot of him upside down? Hoo boy.
AtmosphereCreepy1746 33 points (1 child)
As a gay man, I agree. Nightwing has a long and respectable history of having a very nice ass without it detracting from his coolness and strength.
SeatShot2763 14 points
respect for pointing out the upside down one. i'm a straight guy, but I 100% see what you're pointing out there. they cooked.
johnson_johnny 11 points (2 children)
The upside-down shot is a bit silly
ExpandoD0ng 9 points (1 child)
Have you seen like, any anime ever? They put women in these positions constantly lmfao
VoidGhidorah900 18 points (1 child)
But we have to make it gross/silly to be on par with the sexualization of women
Capraos 4 points
Girl, mmmm girl. Mmmm.
afroblewmymind 5 points
Great example! And even one I think most straight men can wrap their head around.
IceMosquito073 133 points (5 children)
Camera angles, shot compositions, the situation, etc.,
A bikini isn’t inherently a sexual thing, but what makes people associate it with sexuality is that in movies, anime, Manga, etc, you always get these shots/moments were a woman wearing a Bikini has camera shots and angles that focus on her breasts or butt or something else, and these shots are often done to titillate.
A good benchmark for sexualizing men to know if you're doing it right is if the average viewer thinks the sexualised scene is gay, because it's kind of an unconscious assumption that men are the target audience.
Munchkinasaurous 37 points (3 children)
Like a sweaty volleyball scene?
giant123 19 points
I had always felt that top gun was woke and was trying to corrupt our children by exposing them to shameful concept of sweaty, sexy, beach volleyball!
What? No, of course I’m not attracted to Val Kilmer and projecting my insecurities on others, you even insinuating such a thing disgusts me!
Now I’m going to take this bottle of hand lotion and this issue of the sports illustrated swimsuit edition to the bathroom to take a BIG MANLY HETEROSEXUAL DUMP!
IceMosquito073 13 points
Yeah. Something like that.
KezuSlayer 19 points
ChillyFireball 33 points (1 child)
It's a combination of detail and posing, IMO. The women in the bikinis are constantly in poses where they're sticking out their chest, or bent over, or have their legs spread, or just generally have their breasts as a prominent part of the silhouette. Care is taken with the curves in the linework such that you could identify the position of the areola through the clothes, because they're meant to be the focus of the image. You don't tend to see men with their bulge or ass emphasized in the same way. How often can you identify the individual testicles through Superman's spandex?
FilthyOrganick 14 points (1 child)
The bikini isn’t what’s sexual to men it’s women’s bodies. Bikini doesn’t cover the body.
ryegye24 18 points (3 children)
I keep expecting someone else to post this but so far no one has https://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2011-12-02-sexy.png
afroblewmymind 10 points
Dude, this is so great! Reminds me of the actor playing wolverine (very tired and memory challenges) on magazine covers aimed at men vs aimed at women, the latter he's smiling warmly wearing a comfy-ass-lookin sweater. It's insane to me how a lot of men don't get this. I'm not attracted to men and I understand this, but I'm also in community with a variety of gendered-folk and we are open enough to talk about things like preferences and sexuality, so maybe I'm taking that for granted.
Tablesafety 6 points
Oh that nails it
Tablesafety 58 points (3 children)
Give him a midriff that shows off his happy trail.
Linger the camera on his ass, very obvious (perhaps even revealing) bulge and sometimes his forearms when his sleeves are rolled up
Make him pose in uncomfortable positions to show off said bulge and/or ass. Angle the camera without respect to his face or personhood, unless he is making a pouty or cold steel expression where you can imagine he is about to munch some carpet.
When he has to wear armor it’s just a chain speedo with a very obvious codpiece.
ChileanMotherfu-- 19 points
The rolled-up sleeves thing is perhaps the best example of this lmao
Thjyu 13 points
Yupp, go look at any slutty(non nude) Leon Kennedy mod and you'll get how to overly sexualize a male character real quick. It's basically the same type of outfits they put on female characters xD
EugeneStein 29 points (3 children)
I think it would be more something like that. More about "beautiful" and less about "manly"
EugeneStein 10 points
(I took this picture because I remember this great post)
ElegantIsland3348 4 points
The outfit reminds me of past indian royalty
w00lf_T 35 points (3 children)
Williamisnowinning 7 points
My mom would be thirsting after that man 😭
FFKonoko 6 points (1 child)
But that's not superman, that's just steve.
DrCalgori 12 points
Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure specially after Diamond is Unbreakable
leethepolarbear 19 points (3 children)
Massive bulge, thighs, pecs and arms I guess?
nottakentaken 9 points (1 child)
No lol, there's such a thing as too much muscle and anyone with body builder builds loops back around to being unattractive lol
TheWhistleThistle 34 points
Massive bulge? What are you a barbarian? No, a tiny, almost unnoticeable bulge is the mark of civility. Civilised men are growers, not showers, just ask the ancient Greeks.
369122448 24 points (3 children)
It's kind of hard to overly-sexualize a man in media because we don't really have a cultural view of men as a sexual commodity like we do for women.
You could try to ramp up sensuality, but that's a more complex (and often unisex) form of expression, and not sexualisation exactly.
Sexualisation, unfortunately, is pretty impossible to divorce from the centuries of history of women's exploration by men.
Character-Poetry2808 9 points
I think this is a huge part of it, men arent taught to see themselves as 'sexy', to be desirable. Men are taught homosocial ideas of status and signifiers to achieve and then devalued by other men for not meeting those goals. And one of those aspects its a control of the expression of sexuality. Men are taught to outwardly want a very specific idea of a woman, and if they admit to liking outside that box, theyre shamed for it. (And this includes men who might be bi, or simply find a single other man attractive). They dont get to be seen as a desirable person, in some weird ways I think a lot of media makes men almost devoid of desirability, and instead they are power fantasys where youre not meant to identify with the male hero as desirable or even sexual, youre only meant to identify with his performance of masculinity.
So the minute men are put in a sexual gaze they tend to think its gay since they have no other framework.
ExpandoD0ng 8 points (1 child)
"It's hard to sexualize men" Simply wrong. Sexualizing a man is easy as fuck. Men just don't want to be caught drawing other men like that. Search up bara yaoi and you'll see men sexualized in every possible angle.
BlackShadowX 17 points (2 children)
Put him in a skin tight suit and focus the camera on his ass alot, ala snake
Make him Terry Crews because that man is just sex appeal in a chocolate wrapper
Or in my case, put them in a skirt and thigh highs
renegadeinthefray 13 points (1 child)
Who’s putting terry crews in a mini skirt and thigh highs?
BlackShadowX 16 points (1 child)
Terry does what Terry wants, especially when it comes to sexual matters. Thus I can only hope at some point he's comfortable accepting a role where he can wear a tiny miniskirt and fishnets, preferably with a crop top that leaves some of his underpecs visible.
PoxedGamer 7 points
I could imagine him doing it for sure, and acting like a complete badass as he does.
nottakentaken 5 points
Me neither, usually when I'm attracted to a guy, it has nothing to do with his body and everything to do with his face. I'm not attracted to manly or bearded ones but pretty boys like dick greyson, Leon Kennedy, a lot of Chinese actors I don't know the names of etc. if the face is attractive, anything they're wearing looks attractive. But I think there's still ways to sexualize the male body beyond that? It's most cosplayers that manage to effectively do it in my experience.
Th3Glutt0n 31 points (1 child)
A couple of those caricatures actually made me feel sick, bravo OP
CeramicToast 32 points (1 child)
The difference between idealizing and sexualizing.
CalmPanic402 21 points
Just two parts of the wish fulfillment. Wanting to be the hot guy and be with the hot girl.
He's not hot for the ladies to oggle.
mtranda 23 points (4 children)
For those who can't imagine how men could be further sexualised, look no further than Tom of Finland.
And no, it's not a criticism of Tom of Finland, nor of the sexualisation of women in comics. People can have their kinks AND be nice about it at the same time.
WhiskeyAndKisses 18 points
And, look further that just the anatomy and bare skin. It’s also about pose, about angles, about what’s put under focus to the viewer. You can have unrealistic sexy proportions unsexualized, and perfectly realistic neutral proportions sexualized.
A simple example, a few years ago, there was a russian game with a faceless robot with hair tied in a braid around her head. Gamers were saying she couldn’t be sexualized, since her proportions were based on a real dancer ; the sexualization actually came from the choice of open coat and lines reminiscing of high socks.
There's also the video with batman and catwoman models swapped in a game, both don’t move and don’t pose for the camera the same way.
Packrat1010 5 points
Right, people never ask gay men when this topic comes up. Just look at any of the thirst traps that get posted to /r/gaymers. Chest hair, big ass, big bulge, huge chest, muscles for days, chiseled jawline.
One of the top comments is "men can't be sexualized in the way women are." My brother in christ, yes they absolutely can be.
BeeCommon8962 4 points
scrolled WAY too long for an actual example of men being sexualized. didn't even think about gay guys. Women don't usually broadcast what makes a man "sexy".
pepsicola07 21 points (1 child)
The people at r/SmugIdeologyMan would appreciate this lol
Conscious_Hippo_1101 79 points (3 children)
My god those poor women's spines.
That's always been my biggest complaint honestly. People are going to sexualized anybody but it seems like only women lose all sense of anatomy and become contortionist.
Like I've seen exaggerated proportions on both sides but unless its Baki, dont really see guys put in poses to show off the "goods" that straight up defy logic, anatomy, and physics.
DerangedFapper 13 points (1 child)
If you like men you should try Toriko! I also liked Yuri!!! On Ice, Black Butler, Free!, Super Lovers,, and Ouran High School Host Club.
DubstepIsDeadd 7 points (2 children)
Golden Kamuy is underrated and would animate the boys super sexy as well. It’s also really funny
Thebeanmanboi 4 points
GOLDEN KAMUY MENTION 🤑
The series genuinely surprised me when I first read it and how respectfully depicted the women and children were!!!
tukuiPat 48 points (5 children)
https://giphy.com/gifs/Wpj4gXYcUznDjrjUkx
Have you never seen a Jojo pose?
azure-heavens 13 points (3 children)
There's a really cool chick who does videos of herself doing Jojo poses. Can't recommend it enough. I think this anime is actually pretty good with anatomical correctness from what I've seen.
R22XD 11 points
It depends on the part but generally yeah. The anime reflects the author's style evolution over the years which consequently means that the earlier season's (which are also some of the more memorable one's) are much more wonky
_ataciara 6 points (1 child)
The anime doesn't include some of the worst offenders, but JoJos (despite being one of my favourite franchise and Araki one of my favourite creators) is legitimately one of the worst offenders for consistently ABYSMAL anatomy.
Like, some of the worst I've ever seen. Araki can do the most haunting, beautiful high art drawing one page, then in the next one Lucy Steele has a hand for a foot
Tablesafety 8 points
Pretty sure the artist actually got the poses from jojo by copying poses they put real life female models in.
And seeing men in those poses is dope.
wtfcblog 7 points
I think in the case of JoJo, it's a little less of the overt sexualization and more comedic exaggeration for the sake of dynamic posing.... With maybe a dash of fan service at times.
doodoo_onDemand 3 points
tbf this is a man drawing men he might want to fuck
GenniferX 6 points
One of the most legit examples of men being sexualized is when women refer to "grey sweat pants season", though somehow this often seems to involve Jon Hamm.
gaegurliepancake 130 points (5 children)
we need more sexualized men in media
Galrentv 189 points (2 children)
Something people seem to miss consistently is sexual vulnerability. Up skirts, wardrobe malfunctions, posing and phrasing are all used to make female characters appear as sexually available and reciprocal as possible. Shirtless buff men doesn't touch that at all
Cosy-Little-Goblin 105 points (3 children)
That's because shirtless buff men are for the men in a power fantasy kind of way and the vulnerable half naked women are also for men in a sex fantasy kind of way. It's all made for the male gaze.
Successful-Cup-8557 18 points (1 child)
And the female gaze is like "we want sensitive, vulnerable lean muscular men with without *too much* muscle.😇"
katrindr 26 points * (edited 10h ago)
There are plenty of sexualised men in media catered towards women and gays, they are just less popular than media for men and general audience, and I do think people are conflating shirtless whit sexualised, I don't think the average man from otomes or moder romance books thend to be as hyper masculine as the average shirtless buff dude in media for dudes, hyper buff dudes seems more common in media for gay men though.
peachesfordinner BumBum Ouchie 28 points (2 children)
Senshi in delicious in dungeon and Abby in kpop demon hunters are wonderful for this (and voiced by same person)
FlamePiranha 22 points (1 child)
A lot of anime, manga, and LNs sexualize men. When most people think about anime, they think about Shonen. Obviously hot women are going to be the focus since the intended audience is teenage guys. So many reverse harems, romance shows intended for a female audience, and yaoi out there though. Fujoshis are some of the most fun women to talk to because they aren't embarrassed to be degenerates.
peachesfordinner BumBum Ouchie 14 points (1 child)
Oh I know shojo do a good job with a diverse harem for it's female lead or at least they used to back when I was deep in that sauce. Fushigi yugi had something for everyone, Nuriko woke up some confusing thoughts in me. So does full metal alchemist brotherhood. Got just as many thirsting for compassionate and nurturing Sig Curtis as there are for mustang. And then there are the heartbroken Hughes fans. And yeah I did my time in the fields of yaoi, they are wide and fertile with a bumper crop
Morgolol 4 points
Rosen Garten saga manga takes the absolute piss out of this. It's incredible
Merari01 it's a-me, Merari-o 17 points (1 child)
There was a time in the "90s when the X-Men comics were literally just OP's image.
Lopsided-Farmer-9422 14 points (1 child)
Survivorship bias. Basic buff & shirtless men are the limit of what a straight mens consumption is before getting into gay territory, which they obviously don't consume and therefore don't consider. The real equivalent would probably be bara art
Barneyisjehova 26 points (3 children)
How else would you sexualize a man?
You can’t draw him with a huge bul-
Carry on, Marvel Rivals
Le_Vagabond 9 points
true to Liefeld's art style. I'm just laughing at the duck floatie shield x)
KontoOficjalneMR 5 points
You can’t draw him with a huge bul-
Yes, you can. Yes, you can! YES, YOU CAN!!!
ItsForJunk 48 points (4 children)
It’s so weird how we’re at a point where women should have a large upper body (breasts), large lower body (thighs and butt), but non-existent waist. Why are we wanting human women to be modeled after wasps?
Like let me have my regular-sized petiole, dude.
Countess_Victoria 16 points (2 children)
The wasp-people agenda, they are encouraging this so one day they can blend in easily.
Remote_Respect_4257 9 points
Wasp world domination is coming
Kirdei 27 points (1 child)
What do you mean we're at a point? The concept of an Hourglass Figure being desirable has been around since the 1830s.
iTiTiTiTiTiTiTi 27 points (2 children)
To be fair, having a small waist compared to the rest of the body is considered attractive for both men and women and that preference is old as time.
JenStarcaller 18 points (1 child)
it depends on the ratio really. When your waist has the circumference of your spine that ain't pretty no more
jbyrdab 156 points * (edited 8h ago) (6 children)
I mean if we wanna be fair.... Araki...
It's all overly shredded men with insane proportions doing ridiculous poses.
I think another angle of it is that men aren't as against being sexualized and unless it overtly appeals to them because their gay/bi. they just gloss over it. Conan, jojo, fist of the north star, "manime" in general, etc.
If you find no appeal in the male form like me, this shit is just cool. Im just aware that this is kind of the same thing as above.
Almost naked greasy buff dudes doing goofy poses while doing stereotypical manly things, with their junk regularly emphasized.
edit: I want to add a little addendum to this.
If you read this whole mess of a thread, i think (or atleast I hope) you might take away not so much as changing your entire world view, but rather the nuance of what I'm trying to get across.
I have my opinions, you have yours, but i hope at the very least the nuance of it is something that can be communicated. Even within this thread I have reached agreeable conclusions with those i was debating.
At the end of the day I suppose the only thing we can ever take away is our own conclusions.
ASpaceOstrich 13 points (1 child)
As a woman who's into men. Araki isn't designing men to appeal to women.
Tardimpala 50 points (1 child)
I may be wrong but isn't the main audience for Jojo men? It's a shonen isn't it? It's not women's fantasy it's men's.
Ramblonius 188 points (5 children)
Women's first experience with being sexualized is nearly getting kidnapped from the mall at age 12, men's first experience with being sexualized is just not a thing that happens for 80% of men. And even really hot men that do get objectified or sexualized are generally safe when they are.
It's just a completely different average life experience.
Square-Singer 32 points (1 child)
Yeah, go read the comments under the ample news stories of e.g. female teachers statutory raping their students. It's all full of "He should be happy", "What a lucky kid" and so on.
It's not seen as "being sexualized" but as "being lucky". So of course, if you frame it like that, nothing bad ever happens to men.
Vivians_Basement 76 points (1 child)
Almost every guy I know is a victim of CSA or sexual harassment as a minor. You're making life worse for victims by weaponizing what we go through for gender war shit. It's fucking disgusting. Just stop.
Acknowledging that men are uncomfortable being sexualized is NOT an attack on NORMAL women. It's just an attack on women who feel entitled to sexualize strangers but don't want to be associated with who they deem "the villain".
I was an infant the first time I was sexualized. My mother still talks about it like it's funny. I've been SAed more than once this year alone.
My partner's mother was, and is, a sex addict. He's a victim of CSA and SA.
My brother is a victim of CSA.
Statistically, 1 in 6 men ADMIT to experiencing SA and men are significantly more likely to minimize their own experiences.
I promise you, you know a LOT of male victims but because you say shit like this, they simply don't feel comfortable telling you about it because they know the first thing you'll do is compare them to a woman.
DanLyxx 24 points (1 child)
I think that's super valid at a macro level and probably explains a lot of women's feelings. At a micro level, it doesn't always hold water.
I, a male, was sexualised a lot from maybe the age of 14 by parents of my friends and even extended family. It wasn't comfortable. I was groped a lot. A lot of sexual comments.
That was my experience. Similar to the female experience in some regards. I don't feel any hate or injustice when men are portrayed like super buff unrealistic figures. I just think it looks cool.
In my experience, it's all an individual experience for how people feel about the media portraying unrealistic body image. I wonder sometimes if I had a large network of other boys that were sexualised, like women do, that I might have a different opinion.
Vivians_Basement 20 points
1 in 6 men have been SAed. What you experienced wasn't a "woman experience", it's simply the reality for SO MANY children regardless of their gender.
What happened to you isn't lesser just because you're a man. Being molested isn't "the female experience". It's just something that happens.
🫂 It sucks seeing people minimize it happening to men or outright saying it doesn't happen, but you are valid in your experience. Never stop talking about it because the more you talk about it, the more comfortable other men will be in doing the same. Creating that network starts with talking about it.
jbyrdab 36 points (3 children)
I think another perspective is that men find appeal regardless in being sexualized because it's commonly seen as aspirational.
The ladies man was a stereotype for a reason.
You know the phrase "women want to fuck him, men want to be him". Yeah that's kinda the thing about JoJo.
I don't want to fuck any of the JoJo protags, but hell I'd love to be as musclebound as Jonathan, as cool headed as Jotaro, as suave as Joseph, and as determined as Giorno.
If your not attracted to them, they are presented as very aspirational. Most men who are presented as appealing are.
Is it a ridiculous standard, still yes, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a thing.
It's just glossed over because Men stand from the opposite end because men are told they ought to be like this. They will have their dreams come true if they can meet this standard.
Its not because it's safe, it's because it's what all kinds of media tells us we are expected to be. He-man, Conan, Bond, JoJo, comics, etc.
I think avoiding that both versions of this are kinda bad for their respective gender, not just sexualizing women, is why toxic masculinity has dug as deep as it has.
And I love JoJo but I know that dudes genuinely do model themselves after these kinds of characters, and we don't have a million faces coming out of the wood work to tell us that it's wrong, that we shouldn't be destroying ourselves to meet an impossible standard.
You can't put the shoe on the other foot without checking the size first. And frankly I don't think most men can fill em' despite desperately wanting to.
stanleysladybird 47 points (1 child)
No one is saying that men aren't also victims of the patriarchy in exactly the way your outlined, just that they don't get sexualized in the way women do.
tazerrtot 22 points (1 child)
it's not considered aspirational because it's sexual though, it's considered aspirational because it's powerful. The power to physically engage something, the power to get the women they want, the power to not be held down by rules. The same could not happen with women because in the eye's of society women's power isn't valued, women aren't people, they're trophies- that's why women can be freely sexualized in media as a treat for the viewer but a woman being sexual in real life is called a slut and is looked down on when the same generally doesn't happen with men.
I agree to an extent that this isn't good for men either, the issue is it's harmful for different reasons, and when they're treated as the same it's often in service of minimizing the harm to women rather than highlighting the harm to men.
jbyrdab 7 points (1 child)
You have a point that the difference is power. Though I will argue that many sexualized characters are still shown as powerful.
That being said, I think those elements are kind of hand in hand and irregardless of how they spin:
they both still hurt people by presenting an impossible image that causes a ton of damage when one inevitably can't match it.
With the problem being we don't have anyone calling this out to the same extent. Its wrong for women to be presented that way, but like this comic, people are more than willing to go to bat for it, where men facing this issue get much more scrutiny if not vitriol.
I don't think either are ok, nor do i believe womens struggles with it should be minimized to prop up the other side of the issue,
i just think men ought to get more help in this corner of the issue, without minimizing what women go through with being sexualized as well.
tazerrtot 47 points (1 child)
It's really not the same though, as you said, you just find it cool, because it is cool. Tell me what's cool about a school girl crashing into a guy and then accidentally sitting on his face. The issue isn't that characters are shown as sexy, the issue is how it's done
CuriousFriend55 8 points
The shirtless guy is 14 or something
TrippleassII 8 points (1 child)
TBH hetero men and women don't know how to sexualize men propely
riiyoreo 12 points * (edited 47m ago)
This is true. Men are shirtless all the time and the world doesn't automatically associate it with sexualisation. Women in media who are sexualised aren't just dressed sexy - but the biggest part of their screentime is spent sexualising her, or making it part of her character, or making the animation/direction oddly focus on angles that are titillating and forces the audience to pay attention to the fact that she's getting sexualised. Yoruichi from Bleach would've still been a sexy and strong character but they remove her autonomy, make her a brainless cat and focuses on sexual angles so much it takes away from the badassery from the fight. Same with when a woman falls down but somehow butt is up in the air and the camera is shoved right behind it. Oftentimes the reason for their sexualisation is being justified with a half baked in-story reason, but ultimately the author's intent was to include sexualisation. There's this anime called Sparks of tomorrow with a rather cartoonishly sexualised villain who's a man, I think he's a good example. But yeah MOST MEDIA is bad with sexualising just women and assuming a regular shirtless dude aurafarming is the same thing.
leaderofstars 7 points
Jesus, I thought that was two people at first
Erikkamirs 7 points (1 child)
It was so funny when Marvel Rivals released a sexualized version of Captain America in a swimsuit. That's how you sexualize men lmaooooo. His whole ass, pecs, and bulge were defined.
holleringelk Hollering Elk 2.8k points (9 children)
Simply outstanding work.
DarkBladeMadriker 1.1k points (3 children)
I love the clearly defined ass Crack THROUGH the skirt. Peak shit right there.
holleringelk Hollering Elk 470 points (3 children)
I believe there is a fully rendered vulva at the top of the crack as well, as if it migrated to ensure the oggler may oggle upon all of her erotic assets unhindered by convential, unattractive anatomy. I could only dream of drawing something this
cursedsexy.skivvv 151 points (2 children)
Moving like an eldritch beast that's reconstructing human attraction through trial and error
IgnatiusRileyFreeman 36 points
Doing to human anatomy what a gastronomy restaurant does to a sandwich
The_Pleasant_Orange 13 points
Oooh I see, picasso style
SavagePassion 17 points
Oh my God you're right....
Fourteen14XIV 25 points (1 child)
Yeah, how many times do you see shit like that done on male characters?
unw00shed 40 points (1 child)
Spine straight from uzamaki
Dev_878 48 points (1 child)
Oda I know that's you, you AIN'T SLICK!
Extremtoaster 49 points
Oh i know that one from Onepiece
Teacher_Crazy_ 13 points
Peak horror monster right there.
Duraxis 14 points
That’s some Rob Liefeld anatomy there
SuuSuraimu 6 points
I hope we get to see more of her and her unique figure.
HAL9001-96 5 points
SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE