Russia/Ukraine Zelensky: Starlink Capped at 161 km/h, Disabling Interceptors (kyivpost.com)
13.4k points · submitted by IonHawk to r/worldnews
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all 1205 comments
AccomplishedAge4523 8.1k points (7 children)
This will only accelerate the development of alternatives to Starlink/Starshield. Musk is screwing himself.
MEDICARE_FOR_ALL 2.8k points (11 children)
Isn't starshield controlled by the military of the USA?
It's Trump doing this. Trump has the power and could restart it if he wanted.
((He won't though because he wants to be besties with Putin- but he's totally not a Russian asset to MAGA))
Due_Satisfaction2167 829 points (8 children)
It doesn’t matter. He likely will fully restore service eventually. But the damage is done.
The fact that a mad American president could order this is sufficient to force people to create alternatives. Even if in that future a military customer ultimately settles on choosing an unencumbered starlink as one of their providers, everyone involved will want a non-American alternative as a backup in case there is this sort of political change in the US.
The problems Trump is creating for American multinational corporations don’t go away easily. They can only be fixed with major changes in US constitutional law to restructure power, limit the power of the president, and in particular allow American companies to respect foreign laws in foreign territories—I.e. to allow multinational companies to refuse commands from the US government when operating outside US territory, without the US government getting pissy about it and holding their contracts in the US hostage.
As an aside: everyone else has the same problem right now too. Ex. Chinese companies are just as bound to the political whims of Beijing, maybe even more bound to them. French companies are just as vulnerable to French politics as anyone else. Etc, etc.
This problem is clear and present for American companies due to Trump being a particular odious traitor who is thrilled to betray his allies to suck down Putin’s cock, but it doesn’t begin and end with the US. China will have the same problem whenever Xi’s health gives out and the new guy wants to change the ship’s direction to suit his own whims.
appropriatesoundfx 164 points (1 child)
And this supports the concerns that people have raised about purchasing American jets.
John-AtWork 196 points (3 children)
People are dying because Trump is throwing a tantrum over a fake issue. I hope Americans consider this when they vote in a couple of weeksq
WheresTheResetBtn 33 points (1 child)
He wants Russia's help in the midterms and this is what Russia demanded from him
Ch1pp 48 points (2 children)
Americans caring about the affect their votes have on foreigners? Not likely
Xatsman • points (1 child)
Even if completely selfish they should care about the affect their votes will have on foreigners behavior.
If foreigners don't immigrate to the US, the US' retirement system collapses. If they don't travel, the tourism industry declines. If they don't watch American media, the entertainment industry suffers. If they don't invest in America, the stock market shrinks and bond rate grows. If they don't elect governments amiable to the states, American influence and power declines.
AdHoc_ttv 133 points (2 children)
Yup, no country can rely on US miltech going forwards. American Military Industrial Complex just finding out how screwed they are
glmory 98 points (3 children)
This falls in the category of Trump's actions only make sense if you assume he is trying to destroy America. Arms sales will totally collapse over the next decade due to his actions.
ZumboPrime 71 points (2 children)
Absolutely. In terms of a few things that damage the US military dominance specifically:
Launched a new war against Iran that literally everybody competent knew was a terrible idea, and had advised him not to do, repeatedly. Dozens of American soldiers have been killed already that we know about, and major bases have been abandoned, which Hegseth tried to hide.
Said war demonstrated the limits of American munitions capabilities, e.g. bunker buster penetration depth.
Absolutely massive quantities of ammunition stockpiles have been used up, preventing them from being available for actually important conflicts or being sent to Ukraine.
Now arbitrarily limited Starshield using the American killswitch. Now everyone knows for certain that they can do this, as opposed to just speculation before, and no western democracy will consciously choose American technology when alternatives exist.
One of the American carriers was pushed past its breaking point, so the ship & its crew will be out of service for the foreseeable future.
RobertABooey 32 points (2 children)
This is why as a Canadian I do NOT want our government from buying any more f35s than we have contractually agreed to. There’s a kill switch.
I know the gripens use American engines, but I still think the deal Sweden is talking about giving us (the ability for us to manufacture them HERE in Canada, using Canadian materials) is inherently better than buying something with a kill switch a crazy administration can use on us.
Jazzlike_Pride3099 11 points (1 child)
Yeah, when there's a fleet of russian bombers with escort and tankers coming over the North pole I wouldn't trust the NORAD coms guiding the F35's much...
Self operated, self serviced gripens coming up from road bases with global eye and land based radars feeding into the theater view... That's something that I feel will be more available, and they don't need a full company of enlisted to turn around.
Gripen goes down on a 5-6 meter road (even in snow) and refuels and reloads hot (with engine running)
F35 is great if you have a ship at safe distance to use as a base. US have never been forced to plan for an invader on their own turf and it shows
Sweden on the other hand had lots of practice in thinking how to stop the bear... How much ground to give up and how to use natural choke points properly. Having fixed air bases and planes needing lots of personnel / material to keep running was deemed a bad path early on. Normal staffing at a road base (at least in my time) was two drafted and one enlisted.... If the engine needed to be swapped it could be done as well but then there was a few more people on ground
McHomer 6 points
Excellent summary, thank you
tj1602 8 points (1 child)
And the worst thing people still treat him like he's good for the USA.
"But if Harris was president everyone would have declared war on the USA!" BS I actually heard from one of my bosses and coworkers... And something I bet my mother would say too.
Can't argue with them cause it's so exhausting.
ergo-ogre 9 points (2 children)
Imagine the hard-on Trump would get if he could remotely cripple/deprecate anything we sold to other countries.
Jazzlike_Pride3099 9 points
Like F35's? That needs to get their mission profiles created in US and downloaded from there....
MrDLTE3 113 points (1 child)
The fact that a mad American president could order this is sufficient to force people to create alternatives.
Remember the GPU export rules to China? The tech CEOs warned that shutting China out of the market would force them to actually start investing in their own industry/alternative. US ignored that warning and China actually started doing just that.
At first their first debut GPUs were a massive joke, being about 15 years behind. Now, their latest GPUs in just a span of ONE YEAR has improved dramatically to being only 2 generations (about 5 years, the 3x series) behind. That's a crazy massive improvement and thats all because the US forced them to improve themselves now they have actually working on alternatives and may not even need US GPUs in the future.
The US lost its soft power in controlling its exports of a critical tech component. Before, the US held control over exclusive GPU tech, now China has developed its homegrown version.
redredme 41 points (2 children)
French companies are required to follow EU law. So no, a company from an EU country is not bound by that countries laws. It's bound by EU law.
Eu companies are somewhat insulated against nationalistic bullshit. Why? The last time some nationalistic asshole tried (and succeeded) something it was one of us and we where the ones to suffer the most.
reveek 13 points
Correction: a French company is beholden to EU and French laws. French laws should align with EU laws but that isn't an exact necessity. The French government (and all EU governments) still retain sovereign control. If a French laws controvenes an EU law, that is probably something the government will need to fight over, not the company.
andrerav 10 points
Yeah, this is a one way street for Starshield. No other country will want to deploy this now that america has shown that they can't offer this without fucking meddling if they later have a minor disagreement with said country.
AccomplishedAge4523 640 points (2 children)
Musk suggested throttling Starshield, and Trump agreed.
Judonoob 155 points (3 children)
You should cite the source, as that is important in this context. I believe it was The Telegraph that reported it first.
shrimpcest 343 points (1 child)
It was reported yesterday, here's an article, I don't know if this was where it was originally published.
Elon Musk and Trump Were Both in on Ukraine Starlink Shutoff | The New Republic https://newrepublic.com/post/216758/elon-musk-trump-ukraine-starlink-restrictions
debacol 138 points (1 child)
Even without the source, just look at Musk's tweets asking for Zelenskyy to be removed from office. He ABSOLUTELY had a hand in nerfing Ukraine's access to Starlink.
rizakrko 99 points (2 children)
It's irrelevant who in the US controls it. The point is that this system cannot be relied on, so alternatives are required.
whatlineisitanyway 26 points (1 child)
Even if relationships are eventually mended everyone will be developing alternatives to the US both militarily and economically from now on. It might be a century before we understand the full effects of what Trump has done to destroy the US.
kermityfrog2 6 points (1 child)
Events are unfolding faster in a new world. I think the effects will be felt within 5-10 years.
yui_tsukino • points
The actual effects yes, but you won't get a full picture of what happened without some distance from the events.
FluffyGreenThing 135 points (1 child)
To me it’s clear that Musk and Trump are pointing the finger at each other while working together to bring Ukraine to its knees. They’re equally responsible and equal sized cunts. They’re both working with Russia. Trump isn’t just a Russian asset. He’s also motivated by revenge against Zelensky because he didn’t play Trumps game back in 2019 when Trump extorted him. Trump expected Zelensky to just go along with Trump’s lies about Ukraine investigating Biden and Biden’s son because if he didn’t Trump was withholding military support. It’s what got Trump impeached the first time (with zero consequences). Zelensky isn’t morally bankrupt so he refused.
If you’re not convinced about that motivation Trump brought it up again in a speech to his quite meager group of supporters at a rally just yesterday. He’s such a piece of absolute shit. Fuck him, Musk and the USA in general for being spineless selfish cowards and unleashing this absolute lunatic on the world for a second time! My god!
I’m not shocked at all about what Trump is doing. It’s been out in the open for a decade, but the fact that he’s been given free reign all this time makes it perfectly clear that Americans don’t mind its country murdering people senselessly, starving people, committing war crimes openly, threatening to invade allies, starting trade wars, attacking Nato, starting wars , participating in genocide and extorting nations as long as their gas prices are ok. Now they aren’t so they start to complain, but just a little bit. Americans are a selfish people. It’s as simple as that. If they weren’t they never would have given Trump a second chance at setting the world on fire just so he can pretend to be king of the ashes.
hell-diver8 72 points (1 child)
it's still both if your not gullible
Dry-Consequence42 28 points (1 child)
This, they’re so bad at hiding it too.
Pickle_Emotion 14 points (1 child)
Two toddlers with mouths covered in chocolate insisting neither did it is probably the best analogy.
That.. or neither the US or Musk have control over Starshield
vesarius 74 points (1 child)
It's irrelevant who's doing it. That's the point. American tech is under the sway of a dictator who uses lives as a negotiation tool. If it's true for starlink, isn't it true for every other piece of american tech?
That's the danger of doing things like this. American tech is no longer trustworthy. Look at how people treat chinese tech - this is the same.
Xollector 19 points (1 child)
Musk controls trump so yes musk asked for this and then trump agreed and now both are saying it wasn’t their decision….
Some-Seaweed6858 24 points (1 child)
Musk has shut it down before in 2022 and we had all the same conversations about why he has so much power. This time round it's like the world has amnesia, everyone is speculating on who has authority and who did it... Not a single journalist I've seen has referred to this previous incident. https://unn.ua/en/news/musk-ordered-starlink-to-be-disabled-in-ukraine-during-the-successful-counteroffensive-of-the-armed-forces-of-ukraine-in-2022-reuters
JeffreyElonSkilling 29 points (1 child)
Musk approach Trump. Not the other way around.
areyouhighson 6 points
The was reporting that Musk went to Trump with the proposal to throttle the speeds, and Trump agreed. Then Musk blamed Trump after the backlash, and Trump blamed Musk. Insert Spider-Man meme.
DonOntario 210 points * (edited 4h ago) (3 children)
And the US defence and high tech industries in general.
This has proven right those in Canada worried about a potential "kill switch" in F-35 fighter jets and those in the EU worried about the US government and industry using US cloud computing and data as leverage to try to control other countries.
Edit: Not that this proves that there's a literal kill switch for the jets, but that the US can and will use their control of the network and server backbone to disable or limit capabilities of paying customers in supposedly friendly countries.
soffpotatisen 79 points (1 child)
Yep. They really are speed running the "See, you cant trust the US and the systems you buy from them"-narrative. And it really reeks of something Putin and Russia would want. The split between US and the rest of the western world.
Exile56678 22 points
The US won't be a world power for much longer. Especially once countries move off the US $ being the global reserve currency.
Dear_Chasey_La1n 13 points (1 child)
While true and Ukraine with Trump specifically really pushed European defense at the cost of US defense, that shit still takes time. And bozo's Trump & Musk are out there making billions right now.
That this bullshit only pushes Iris further on the agenda doesn't really matter to them, this is grifting today.
Though this should be approached differently, this isn't just grifting, this is being a traitor, selling out a nation to Putin. They all deserve jail time.
Unfortunately that's not going to happen anytime soon and in the meantime Ukraine is suffering. The biggest sham in all this, the US didnt' pay for this, Musk didn't pay for this, Europe did. So why again are "we" not in control of what's going on with Ukraine? Same with Witkoff and Kushner being send to Moscow for negotations, the fuck are they doing there? Since Trump came to power the US doesn't provide anything other than intel, the EU is. So again why are they there and not EU people?
Klathmon 6 points
I mean there is basically a kill switch in F35s
They need a signed key from the US in order to do any maintenance on them, and depending on the contract they signed to even start them.
The keys expire automatically so they constantly have to ask for them to be able to maintain and use the fleet.
ings0c 44 points (2 children)
Next, we need non-US cloud providers.
The entire modern world runs in datacentres ultimately controlled by the US government.
If you think the US government can’t see into your Azure or AWS VM if they so wished, I’ve got a bridge to sell you!
Tetha 12 points (1 child)
That train already started rolling and won't stop anytime soon.
The industry is talking about sovereign compute since a year or two. Basically since the mail account of a german judge was deactivated by Microsoft. That sparked heavy worries in people. What if Microsoft just blocked your entire company, or your entire country?
As a SaaS Service, being hosted on one of the big hyperscalers, which are eventually US-controlled companies is slowly turning into a no-go or a bad sign, especially in more regulated and critical areas like finance, energy, government.
And there are quite a few EU-native providers and new projects starting to invest money into EU based Hyperscaler-like hosting.
Usual_Indication9106 53 points * (edited 5h ago) (2 children)
Even in the best case scenario, how long would that take? if I hazard to guess, many, many years, I believe mostly related that there isn't anyone else that's close to being able to launch as many satellites as SpaceX.
Its the reason why Ukraine tried to remain at least somewhat cordial with Trump even when he's clearly has always been aligned with Russia, because even when the US goverment stopped gifting weapons directly to Ukraine, it was a smaller issue than the possibility of Starlink being used to favor the Russians.
When they actually managed to convince them to shut off Starlink for the Russians, it provided a huge advantage, if they now do the opposite, it will be a disaster for Ukraine and there's no viable alternative coming any time soon.
Due_Satisfaction2167 16 points
China’s got some providers that are a sort of “SpaceX we have at home” alternative.
The problem with this sort of reasoning is that a pacing opposition isn’t that far behind, so you can’t afford to pointlessly squander your existing leading advantage or you get overtaken.
Trump’s administration has been literally nothing but unforced geopolitical errors causing the US to cede advantages in every domain Trump touches. Even if he isn’t a Russian asset, he is behaving exactly identically to how a Russian asset would behave.
iCowboy 18 points
I can't see how any country apart from the US can now possibly allow Starlink to deliver a mobile service. The ability for someone in the US to turn off reception on a whim and black out a country is just too dangerous. So they've played silly games, killed Ukrainians and now lost hundreds of billions in potential markets.
titangord 7 points (1 child)
People have been saying that for 5 years.. Europe did jack shit to develop an alternative for Ukraine..
Gronndolph 3.2k points (8 children)
Why are americans so insistent and telling the world to stop buying their stuff? Why the fuck would you trust anything they make when they just turn it off on you like this.
Waterflowstech 1.7k points (5 children)
Because the Russians want the US to destroy itself, and the republicans abide
thelionsmouth 76 points (1 child)
Well yeah, the us has taken on so much foreign investment it’s basically a pile of multinational corporations in a trench coat with no nationalism.
If the republicans wore jackets like nascar for their ‘donors’ I’m sure it’d be a bunch of companies / industries and Russia would be right there at the top
mustang__1 17 points (1 child)
All politicians should be required to show their sponsorship
Realdoc3 13 points (1 child)
Politicians shouldn't be allowed to have corporate sponsors and private donors should have a hard cap.
SissyCouture 63 points
The Russians owe part of this ability to Reagan’s helping hand. No administration did a better job of embedding the idea that the government and American people are separate and oppositional things.
MolitovMichellex 216 points (2 children)
Probably for the best given how things have been. A weak country filled with weak people.
keseykid 95 points (2 children)
At first I was upset at this comment and then I agreed. So complacent with tyranny. I am flying back from Switzerland and see how good things could be in the US if we fought for our individual rights and democracy.
TheModWhoShaggedMe 56 points
Instead, our conservatives have fought, and continue to fight, to take our individual rights and democracy away. When they aren't starting long occupations in Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Venezuela (and soon Cuba), that is.
100% facts.
Crypt0Nihilist 11 points
Republicans want to get fat off the carcass. The assumption is that if they can amass sufficient personal wealth, they can insulate themselves from the consequences.
You can see it writ small with Fox News. A lot of the people there don't believe the lies they're peddling and it's enabled Trump. However they don't care because they're wealthy enough that they're not affected by what he's doing.
TacosAreJustice 179 points (4 children)
What’s crazy to me is I just assume the anti American sentiment will carry over to other things…
From McDonald’s to iPhones… why trust American products?
The utter immolation of our “brand” and soft power is pretty incredible.
My kids are going to inherit a much different country.
Funsuxxor 42 points (1 child)
The natural conclusion is people stop buying US dollars and US debt
EgoistHedonist 47 points (2 children)
It's not just your companies. The dollar is gonna crash hard and I don't see many avenues for it to recover from that after what Trump has done. My hunch is that he's crashing the dollar on purpose, maybe some crypto scheme behind it? Who knows, but that's what it looks like.
Allaplgy 27 points (1 child)
My hunch is that he's crashing the dollar on purpose, maybe some crypto scheme behind it?
He is. Well, the people pulling the strings are. This isn't even a secret. Several of billionaires backers are openly trying to break apart America so they can have their own little technofeudal fiefdoms. Essentially modern company towns at a city state scale, with their own crypto currencies.
EgoistHedonist 7 points (1 child)
True, kinda mind blowing to see how that plan goes further and further by the day while nobody is even trying to stop them.
Allaplgy 5 points
There are plenty of people trying to stop them, it's just kind of hard when they control the government and the media, and two hundred million Americans are happy to ignore it all, or side with them, as long as they get a new phone that can turn a picture of their grandkids into dancing cats or whatever.
TacosAreJustice 9 points
He might have a plan, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good plan.
sCeege 5 points
As a side note, it's ironic that McDonalds is so entwined with American brand and identity, yet we have the worst McDonalds experience of all the countries I've ever been to, we literally do it worse lmao.
Due_Satisfaction2167 32 points (1 child)
Getting the US into this position has been a long-term goal of Russia, because in part they know that if they destabilize democracies this way then the other democracies will amplify the damage by turning on anyone he so infects, even if they eventually fix the issue.
PRiles 18 points
They have been targeting Europe as well, it's partly why you are seeing such a rude in far right parties within Europe.
JeanClaudeSegal 8 points
Because right now there is no other widely accessible satellite based internet capable of immediate usage for a country's military. Its a hugely capital intensive monopoly that no one else has 10s of billions of $ to compete with. Without an alternative, there will always be customers even if they don't feel good about it.
I'm American and don't like this way of doing business, but it is the world we find ourselves in.
FartCityBoys 13 points (1 child)
The party in power right now will often decide more power now is worth hurting long term prosperity. More power in a weaker America is a trade they are willing to make. In this case, Elon thinks there’s more to gain by keeping the Republicans in power. Im not sure if this is because he think liberals will come after him, hurt his business, or if his brain is so cooked on ketamine that he’s turned far right.
At any rate, he believes Russian bot farms, Russian oil, and dictators in power are worth more than Starlinks reputation.
KupoCheer 33 points (1 child)
Nobody played Metal Gear Solid 4 or at least no one listened to the story.
Sans-valeur 5 points
The only way it makes sense is that business is gambling to some degree. All these big tech billionaires have taken continuous big risks, gotten lucky, and convinced themselves that they’re successful because they’re incredible.
That none of it is luck.
So you just keep taking risks in the pursuit of more money, power and influence.
Because what are you gonna do? Stop taking risks? Some other younger tech bro will just come and take them instead and try to replace you.
Not limited to tech though, just the type of person who is still aggressively pursuing wealth and power when they already have more than 99.9% of the planet, is willing to gamble with just about anything, even their own, entire, country.
dvenator 906 points (3 children)
Looks like the US was conquered before Ukraine.
houseplanthospice 159 points (2 children)
It all started in 1987.
d3vmax 35 points (1 child)
NATO article in newspaper just before USSR collapse.
Similar vibes….
houseplanthospice 31 points (1 child)
The cold war never ended but we absolutely lost it, and at this point our kids won't even be smart enough to realize what happened.
ArtDan4Eva 602 points (5 children)
Musk and Trump have Ukrainian blood on their hands and much more to come as Trump continues to fund and support Russias war effort. Shameful.
85 points * (edited 1h ago) (2 children)
[removed] — view removed comment
ArtDan4Eva 23 points
No I really don’t think they care, or they wouldn’t be doing what they’re doing.
msg_me_small_butts 9 points (1 child)
But... people on Reddit were telling me both sides are the same. How could this possibly happen?
cleg 22 points (1 child)
They already caused millions of deaths. So, few thousands more or less — they don’t care
_I_R_ 7 points (1 child)
Do not forget credit for millions Americans.
Same as whole ruzzian nation is responsible for their war and innocent killing
So America as nation is responsible too. Blood is on regular American hands too.
angrytoaad 8 points
Aka the American people
nonax 638 points (9 children)
What i don't get is how Americans let themselves be used by Russia like this. It's like a stupid movie where Russia is the mastermind and the US is the blithering fool. I know there are capable people in the US, but how they seem to have been subverted so systematically i don't get.
El_Peregrine 492 points (4 children)
Systematically is the operative word here. Trump and Republicans have cheated, grifted, rioted, gerrymandered, and generally consolidated their grip on all levers of power in the US. They have the legislature, the courts, the executive, AND the media. It is terrifying.
HiphopopoptimusPrime 81 points (2 children)
Thiel et al want the USA to disintegrate. They believe corporations should be running the world. The fucking idiots think they can control China and Russia the way they control the USA.
orbital-technician 36 points
Unfortunately, it is spreading into Europe and South America. I agree though, China will never let a business deter them from meeting their 100 year goals.
Alibaba go too big for their britches and Jack Ma basically got disappeared for a couple months and since then you hardly hear about him.
jefbenet 128 points (2 children)
Worse yet is how they published their entire plan and nobody believed it. Now we’re living it.
El_Peregrine 113 points (2 children)
Lots of us believed it; we were gaslit and told that we were being alarmist.
ScreenMuch90210 29 points
Yeah and now the goombas want us to blame ourselves for not fighting them harder. There’s so much work left to do but I gotta say, I sleep great when I think about my past choices regarding this.
Gr8NonSequitur 10 points
Yeah "So you're telling me that 900 page book /plan, they specifically wrote for after this election is not going to be used?" Riiiiiiiiiiiight...
Fustercluck25 55 points (1 child)
Russia never stopped fighting the Cold War.
El_Guap 10 points
Russian state media is apparently calling it the great "American Kneel" in exultation of Putin's success.
PokecheckHozu 8 points
You never saw the Trump supporter wearing a shirt that said "I'd rather be a Russian than a Democrat"? Yeah... That was many years ago.
portus387 27 points (1 child)
Americans?
This is Peter Thiel’s power.
Elon Musk does anything he says.
Lucasn911 56 points (1 child)
I think something thats hard for Europeans to understand is that although it had an impact socially early in the war, the war in Ukraine has no bearing on the American populace. Who our government sends money to, and why, has no impact on the daily lives of citizens. You wouldnt ask yourself about the price of eggs in Morroco.
It doesnt hit close to home for a generation of Americans that had their social services robbed so there could always be a war we were funding over there ukraine is just one of a long line of military quagmires.
Americans care about gas prices. Its why theyre mad at Trump for Iran, and why they are indifferent about Gaza. Morality means nothing. The deaths of Russians or Ukrainians means nothing. If turning Ukraine into a parking lot made gas cost $1.50 a gallon it would have a 90% approval rating. Trump is trying to lower gas prices for the midterms. Hes getting taken for a ride. Thats really all there is to it and in a month, the script will change again as hes more interested in covering his ass than about gas prices
Passing_Thru_Forest 9 points (1 child)
Tinfoil hat novella here, I think Russia has spent decades building the dream of a worldwide oligarchy and were seeing the pieces they've worked on starting to play their hands. They picked their people and pushed their agenda and worked their ideas of weakening governments (through misinformation and their internet/news-based propoganda) so the wealthy could control and recruit their own loyalists to run things. Russia essentially functions this way already and with the appointments and actions of the US now, they've been pushing closer and closer to this end as well (how else do you get a talk show host becoming the secretary of defense?). Some populations are so divided that there's literally hatred between people who have never had a conversation with each other, let alone spent time within the community together.
They don't have all the power yet, luckily. There's still elections and we've seen victories reversing oligarchs like in Hungary. But if I had to imagine the ultimate goal behind all of this, it's pushing all the economic power towards a system like in Russia right now (into individuals of loyalty and wealth) and weakens the fabric of communication and unity that made the West formidable. The promise of that power withdrew loyalty away from the government and people who they're supposed to serve and into this idea a new world order could be formed with those willing to work against their countries being at the top. The greatest benefit to pushing this idea is the weakening of the US in the process. It doesn't even matter in the end whether the promises come true and cooperation of the US and Russia as oligarchies happen because the process undoes a ton of the strengths that made the US what it was.
I don't think any of this happened overnight, over a month, over a year. It's been systematic and deliberate, and ever-changing missions to find and expand cracks in the systems.
It's a wild time and the economic hardships people have to shoulder now on top of it make it so much harder for the average person to withstand and navigate with an open mind.
TransplantedSconie 17 points (1 child)
This is what happens when a party slashes education every fucking year for 40 years.
You get absolutely stupid moronic imbeciles who believe only one news source and political party even if that parties policies drive them to ruin.
30% are fucking stupid beyond belief and in a cult. Don't let it happen to your countries. The seeds are being sown in your gardens, Europe. Pull those weeds before it is too late.
IGotQuestionsAF 99 points (2 children)
Every fucking day it feels like these mfs give me a reason to feel just as physically ill as I did watching the votes come in on election night.. And the worst fucking part is that it would only really take a chunk of republicans in the Senate/House turning on him to fight back, but somehow every single one is in the regime's pocket. It's not even hard to stop or at least put some brakes on him, they just refuse to.
Funsuxxor 35 points (2 children)
Literally all it would take is about 20 people to remove Trump from office, but here we are...
18MazdaCX5 16 points (1 child)
They are all 85 and could die at any moment too.
bullydog123 65 points
Trump and musk are mad he blowup their Russian data centers. Thats why thais is happening
ygkg 18 points (2 children)
Well that's certanly fucking evil... And it's going to encourage Ukraine to make their interceptors fully autonomous out of pure necessity. That couldn't possibly end badly, could it?
IonHawk 8 points (1 child)
Hadn't even thought about that. Making them fully autonomous sounds like a way to fix this overreliance on the whims of a sociopathic baby
ygkg 8 points (1 child)
I mean, it risks taking out things like airplanes by accident, but if I were in their situation I don't think that would stop me either.
kroqus 17 points (2 children)
I wonder if the rest of NATO are thinking of the US. Like i wonder if labels like rogue state, hostile nation etc are being used.
brutalistchurch 7 points
Suddenly we have North Korea in NATO!
Kor_Phaeron_ 4 points
I wonder if the rest of NATO are thinking of the US.
They are mostly annoyed of Washington (The system/the establishment) for letting all of this happen. They did not expect the forces of the status-quo to be this pathetic.
Userwerd 76 points (1 child)
This should be a message to all. No more American tech infrastructure.
Consider how many people use windows, and MS services.
Europe is slowly moving to Linux for Government but it feels really tepid.
Citizens should be moving too.
DoctorBocker 85 points (2 children)
I know that "Elong Musk is an asshoke and his fans are stupid" is NOT a hot take, but.
Remember when Starling rolled out and people hailed it as a grand move towards a free and unrestricted internet? Freedom fighters sharing information right under the noses of repressive regimes, all that shit.
LostBob 13 points
The real repressive regime was the friends we made along the way.
Herb-Alpert 147 points (2 children)
Musk has blood on his hands.
I mean, more blood
IonHawk 90 points * (edited 5h ago) (2 children)
His actions directly leading to the deaths of 8-19 million Africans01186-9/fulltext) made him worried he would look racist, so now he is aiding a genocide of millions of white Christians too.
Software_Dependent 21 points (1 child)
He's a cunt, so he'll carry on doing this shit.
But he's got a shitty flying air compressor tank dressed up as a car.
Not_Campo2 111 points (5 children)
Musk could be quite literally the most popular person in Ukraine and set to make Trillions off exclusive development deals in the country for decades to come. Instead he charges for, and then sabotages his own tools for seemingly no real gain. The real question left is if he’s stupid or just compromised
jonoave 78 points (5 children)
There's a reason, Ukraine strikes on Russian data centres are destroying bots. Twitter activity has been down significantly.
lethalinfecteddevils 25 points (2 children)
This is exactly what I was saying. Ukraine is hitting the most active arm of Russian aggression hard. With that being crippled Trump took a huge blow to the strategy he counts on doing a lot of heavy lifting.
Photomancer 10 points (1 child)
Oh dang. That's a big blow to the conservatives' midterms campaign, isn't it? They must be pissed that they don't have as much help from foreign bot farms.
tekniklee • points
It’s affecting their ability to flood internet with propaganda ahead of US midterms - the horror! How will they get that Talafreako name to stick!
dolfox 11 points
Bingo, worse for them than striking refineries
Pleasant_Ad8054 6 points (3 children)
While I get that, Twitter bleeds money either way. I can't believe they can charge any decent amount for the shit tier advertisement for bots, after all Musk was the one that popularised the idea of twitter being full of bots to begin with. Is this about his ego? His posts aren't getting millions of likes and he is upset?
BenjaminHamnett 4 points
Money is a means to power. Controlling the public discourse is worth much more than money and helps protect his wealth and status
This is why billionaires always are buying media platforms that rarely are very profitable
patchyj 4 points
The elite would happily burn half their money to.save the other half
broguequery 13 points (1 child)
Once you get that amount of money... Then it's not about money anymore.
It's about power.
This_Is_Patrik_89 16 points (3 children)
It’s not musk this time. As much as I hate him, it looks like it’s the Pentagon that has done this directly
Not_Campo2 9 points (1 child)
I was saying the same thing 36 hours ago, but there was a leak from the White House that the push started from musk
Farther_Dm53 12 points (1 child)
No except a leak came out, a full leak showcasing the decision made was elon coming to trump to kneecap Ukraine. Its both of them, stop buying musk BS.
erebuxy 11 points
Clearly the White House ordered it. They even threatened it explicitly
Big_Introduction1952 83 points * (edited 5h ago) (2 children)
A decision that will cost the lives of many. Not that they care anyway, so long as they benefit financially and politically.
IonHawk 32 points (1 child)
They will not benefit politically. Only financially. And that's enough for them. Who cares if millions die. More money for them.
MuddyGround804 21 points * (edited 46m ago) (1 child)
Trump ordered this when he and Musk meet recently, if the reports are true, but Germany pays for Ukraine’s Starlink bill and are protesting why Musk isn’t providing what Germany pays for.
asdfgtttt 11 points (1 child)
isnt this the shit were all afraid of the chinese of doing... so then why do it to anyone else, let alone an ally. isnt capitalism about making money? ffs I hate these men.
Confident_End_3848 36 points
Trump and Musk are both Russian assets.
brutalistchurch 18 points (1 child)
We in the EU should make a warrant for Musk's arrest, so he can't come to buy prostitutes (and worse) and use ketamine here!
NefariousBlue 19 points (1 child)
Think about the insanity of this for a moment. The US is actively hindering a service that is paid for by EU allies, so that an allied country can't shoot down drones that primarily target and kill civilians.
mattjf22 9 points
An American oligarch is controlling a war right now. Our government is failing us.
zatch659 7 points
If Musk wants to discredit himself, then Europe should push back against all his companies. Because why make yourself reliant on some political cudgel for him to beat you with. He's not going away in 2 years with Trump, only pressure he faces is the threat of being removed from his own companies.
Chuckwp 8 points
Hint hint Carney. Go with the Saab Gripen. US tech is not safe.
Tilladarling 15 points (1 child)
Guess Iran was right all along. America (under the current government) really is the Big Satan
OdoBenSisko 20 points (2 children)
And our military leadership is silent. Are there no leaders left?
ergo-ogre 8 points
Nope. Just Chief Cronies and Master Sycophants.
Remember, people, we don’t care about competence or compassion anymore. Just loyalty.
Mutex70 64 points (4 children)
Once the Democrats are in office, they should nationalize Starlink and SpaceX.
Musk can suck it.
_badwithcomputer 36 points (1 child)
Starshield is the "nationalized" version of Starlink. It is owned and operated by Space Force and has additional capabilities from starlink
SignificanceSea4162 18 points
And deport the x-fucker to his home country before they disband ice
Business_Activity_91 14 points (1 child)
IF Democrats get into office and IF they don't play the "we must heal the nation so we must forgive" card yet again.
Zwiada 29 points * (edited 3h ago) (1 child)
It's really time to accept the fact that US is lost as an ally for Europe and we have to get our own tech, which is also a great opportunity. We'll have to get defense, AI and communication technology in order and we can do that without the US, we just need a kick in the ass.
NoCommonDog 27 points (1 child)
Proof positive that NATO must not buy American weapons.
Skadforlife2 29 points (2 children)
Messing with that system should be a war crime.
Nekowulf 26 points (1 child)
Likely is. Sabotage of defense infrastructure in a foreign nation you are not at war with sounds pretty undeclared combatant warcrimy to me.
houseplanthospice 11 points (2 children)
Here's a fun experiment: go on Google Gemini and ask it "assuming trump is a Russian asset list all the ways he's helping destroy America."
18MazdaCX5 8 points
It's like OJ's book if I did it ...
That's the same with Trump .. if I was an actual Russian asset...
Does it even matter if he is? Either way we're as cooked as Nicole.
KeepCalmCarryOnKY 34 points (1 child)
I can only imagine what Musk would do with a Starlink cell service. All data routed to Palantir. He must be stopped.
Schnorrk 33 points (3 children)
What I learned the last years...
Russia or whatever that criminal state likes to call itself is still useless and incompetent.
America is spineless, traitorous and no ally ever.
Europe is slow, scared and still has no alternative to many foreign weapon systems.
zakuivcustom 11 points (1 child)
Sounds about right for Western Europe - slow, scare, just as useless as Russia, just as spineless as US...
De Gaulle like him or not was correct - Europe can't and shouldn't depend on US and has to unite to stand on their own.
No-Cheek7925 4 points (1 child)
Europe trusted the US. A mistake that must not be repeated. If NATO even survives having one member openly support someone who has declared themselves an enemy of NATO it can’t be as reliant on the yanks as it has been.
quazimoto 7 points
middle east cant use restriction of oil as a weapon but its ok for US to use restriction of technology as a weapon. #makessense /s
4x4taco 6 points
Musk and the US admin can't be trusted.
DeadSol • points
So... looks like Musk and Trump want Russia to win the war against our ALLY.
Treasonous behavior again by the Commander in Shit.
Fillyerboot 18 points
On trump’s order.
The US is an enemy of freedom.
houseplanthospice 11 points
We lost the cold war very recently.
teomore 10 points * (edited 4h ago) (1 child)
Eutelsat is the answer, although a long road ahead
Ok-Somewhere-2219 11 points
It's almost as though governments shouldn't rely on business for mission critical, real-time infrastructure needs like this.
I don't blame Ukraine, this short sighted view has been a global issue for decades. The private industry keeps making more money off of the governments that keep outsourcing their responsibilities. The US is the prime example. A huge portion of ur US government is outsourced to contractors.
If we don't build it and own it ourselves, it can be sold or turned off at a critical time.
Or we can keep the greedy businessmen profitable
FrosterrFH 9 points
No military won't ever rely on Starshield.
They could just turn it off/slow it down whenever the political mood in Washington shifts, impacting their war capabilities which also save lives...Trump and Musk are co-responsible for deaths of Ukrainians.
The_Duke_of_Nebraska 5 points
Sounds like murder with extra steps to me...
unknownSubscriber 5 points
Yet people will still cock gobble musk and his products
DoodleCard 5 points (2 children)
Can someone explain what is going on? Thanks. :)
IonHawk 8 points (1 child)
Shaheds are Iranian-designed, long-range kamikaze drones that fly pre-programmed routes to crash into targets with heavy explosives. Russia routinely launches them in massive swarms to hit Ukrainian electrical substations, power plants, grain silos, logistical hubs, and residential apartment blocks in cities across the country.
To counter them without burning through million-dollar air defense missiles, Ukraine started mounting Starlink dishes onto fast interceptor drones to hunt down and ram or shoot the Shaheds out of the sky.
The problem is speed. Shaheds cruise around 185 km/h, and newer jet-powered versions fly much faster. A speed cap of 161 km/h (100 mph) is currently hitting terminals in Ukraine. The moment a Ukrainian interceptor drone accelerates past 161 km/h to catch a Shahed, the terminal connection shuts down, control is lost, and the drone crashes.
opposing-thumb 5 points
Someday we'll find jewels stashed on their remains.
cookycoo 54 points * (edited 4h ago) (3 children)
It’s so disturbing that a US company’s decisions can have that much influence over a democratic country’s ability to defend its people against the aggression of Russia.
This is the sort of shit where Executive Orders should be used.
cjandstuff 21 points (2 children)
Back in the day this was something the right screamed about. The fear was Microsoft controlled so much military and corporate infrastructure that they could do… exactly the kinds of things Musk is doing now.
cookycoo 10 points (1 child)
Exactly and who’s next. Will he cut off Taiwan to cuddle up with China.
Will he cut of Europe if Russia invaded?
theyux 18 points (1 child)
This is 100% Trumps call, Elon is just backing it.
But to your point Trump does not have to worry about the optics of an executive order.
mustluvipa 17 points (2 children)
If I were Musk, I’d be worried about the SBU. He’s screwed Ukraine over so much, they might just start coming for him.
fighter-bomber 13 points (1 child)
I said it elsewhere and I’m going to say it again. If you think SBU will try to assassinate a Western supplier for not providing the desired level of support, you’re delusional.
FOX-WARREN 9 points
The order came from within the whitehouse. Surprising no one
Free_Range_Gamer 8 points (1 child)
Musk and Trump already killed hundreds of thousands of children by abruptly shutting down USAID which cut water and medication to the worlds poorest children. They don’t care if Russia kills more.
GeneralPatten 3 points
Where are the patriots in the CIA when you need them?
BrushStorm 4 points
Trump supports Russia. That is it
Naing001 5 points (1 child)
It’s almost like Trump wants Russia to win…
CascadeJ1980 10 points (1 child)
If Musk wants to be a part of this war then Ukraine should MAKE him a part of this war. 💙💛💙💛
Tinre • points (1 child)
How is interfering with another country not an act of war/violence?
If China did that to the US, they'd lose their shit
JunkaTron69 6 points (1 child)
They did tell us he was compromised by the Russians prior to the 2016 election. But they voted for him anyways.
IKillZombies4Cash • points (2 children)
How does the EU not have an option here?
Is the entire NATO and NATO adjacent world without any similar technology,?
IonHawk • points (1 child)
This is extremely new tech. European alternatives are coming, but still a couple years out.
Alternative_Shirt690 10 points
Trump and Musk need to be both put in prison for the rest of their pathetic lives.
Yn0tThink 8 points (1 child)
Make no mistake, the Cold War never ended, and Ruzzia is winning.
BigTedBear 1.1k points (3 children)
The other issue here that doesn’t seem to be getting much press is Germany pays for this service as part of its aid package to Ukraine.
Germany has demanded the restrictions be lifted and an explanation be provided for the service issue at Starlink.
lemons_of_doubt 252 points (1 child)
Explanation Trump feels no obligation to honor any contract after he has been paid, or to obey any law.
So Russia offering him money today Trumps Germany paying him yesterday.
spitfish • points (2 children)
But Musk does if his companies want any future in Germany. It all depends on how far Germany wants to push this.
Hat_Maverick • points (1 child)
Musk is nazi saluting on tv. They should push him off a cliff
Karmaslapp 37 points
I was wondering why Germany cancelled some of its in negotiating orders of US weapons (drones, in this case), so this timing makes sense